Wednesday, 27 August 2014

Big Steak, Small Sleep, Late Code

It was a meeting day today with almost six hours of solid talking (mostly from Gabby Lee) and it was topped off with a Guinness and 16 oz T-Bone. Naturally when I got back into the house, it was time for a Sueno :)  Stirred into a sort of consciousness about 6PM and felt like coding my little fingers off, so I did. Plenty small but crucial fixes towards the next build, and also managed to catch up on some emails too.  One email was from my artist who has more cool stuff to show, and will shortly be converted to entities for my level making fun.


In addition to these, I have a series of concrete and steel wire assets cooking which will really allow some awesome scenes to be knocked up.  I look forward to revealing those shortly too!

My intent was to do some pre-baking ambient occlusion to give myself a booster feel-good result, but when I looked at all the little but essential tweak items, I decided to clock those off instead to keep things solid. I will do the pre-bake stuff Thursday as I have a fresh day on that and should get some good progress!

During the meeting we did discuss a possible name change for our eventual Steam launch and spent a good hour just bouncing some crazy ideas around. In a funny round-about way we returned to FPS Creator, perhaps dropping the Reloaded part and expanding the FPS to mean "First Person Simulator" so we can enter non-violent markets such as schools and other kid-friendly organisations.  I am opening the floor to any readers of my blog to throw some names at us while we decide on this critical question. Who knows, you might come up with a name that resonates with the team and we adopt it.

43 comments:

  1. I know it has been a stated goal to eventually support 3rd person, so I would actually vote to drop the whole idea of first person from the title as well. I don't have any ideas off the top of my head for a completely new name, but that's something I think you should consider.

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    1. same here and why not just go with Reloaded as the name, after all
      none of us is actually callin it fpsc, we all call it what it is "Reloaded"

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  2. "Reused" same engine different body when will the performance be fixed.

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    1. Lee has been tackling the performance issues through-out. Also people should be more i mindful when creating their scenes to use LODs and other methods to reduce memory usage. So fixed is a difficult word as its not broken. I personally use the word improved. And that's exactly whats been happening its been improved each update.

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    2. lee has mentioned in an interview awhile back he fights for 5% performance gain, this is to little to late imo, 5% of 60fps is what not much at all tbh m8, even 5% of 100fps is still to little to late.. as its only a gain of 5fps which is all well and good but as it disapears way to fast is like nothing at all.. hate to be negative but reloaded is a flogged horse performance wise right now

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    3. The issue is that almost all new incoming media in the store has no lod stages, i would strongly advice tgc to start looking between the lines and
      models that arent optimized well enough should not see the store light.

      After all many users will buy these store items and complain about reloadeds performance even if reloaded has nothin to do with it.

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    4. Im glad it has been improved for you each update but you cant talk for others perhaps i should have used the word improve but that wouldn't be right as improve the loss we got with 1.8 to get back on par with 1.7 so going backwards so i will stick with fix. As for using LODs i gave up trying to make a map when you test escape and it runs the way it does you say why bother.

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    5. Well, Ive been away and havnt seen anything from fpscr in weeks as the engine cant get too much better than what it is. Its time to hang up that hat and start with a real engine and CURRENT trends. i can place models in several different engines and the only engine where they look bad is fpscr. . . .

      Use LOD's? Really? Why is that? i can use all my high poly count media in another engine that TGC used to sell LeadWerks, and not have a bit of issue even with my IMPORTED characters running at me all the time.

      BTW, why did TGC actually sell LeadWerks at one time? Seems counter intuitive to me. ok, enough of this, i have a real map to build elsewhere.

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    6. Have never said that we are there with performance and neither that am satisfied with it but only performance wont make us happy.
      Am waiting since months to see some fullscreen shader effects and the more time passes the more clear it is that it will take much longer to use this engine for a real game project.
      With that being said no am not defending reloaded but am not goin to defend the store and artists either.

      Regarding the escape demo, i know your feelings and tbh, tgc should stopt updating it and restart or the best would be to pick a professional user and let him design a promotional level.
      Yes that would it be, how about callin it the next game competition? ;)
      Who makes the Promo Level for Reloaded Comp.

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    7. imo less gimmicks like jetpack more performance work.. i want 100fps more on highest not lowest not medium... and if its not possible let us know now so we can all go and find it elsewhere, nearly a year in and nothing much to brag about here..

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    8. I feel the same way lordalmighty and don't even get me started on the visuals.

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    10. I'm not saying were at a great stage in the performance yet. I'm just glad its been considered and it has been a focus throughout development and into the future. Its no where near where I'd like it to be yet, considering I can play games like Skyrim on high on my current card without much issues but in Reloaded its a different story.

      Also I don't believe the community agreed on a 100fps range for all video cards. Believe we had a big conversation on this on the forums and everyone was looking at a goal of 30-60fps minimum. Least that is what I recall.

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  3. 2 chay tattie, and spot on also... dbpro is to old imo, and leadwerks is the same deal almost and 4x bigger and faster toboot...

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  4. FPC (First Person Creator). Just an idea.

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  5. FPC meaning first person creator. if you plan to expand it could be 3D game creator or 3D creator. my idea of that if we could make games like mario 64.

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  6. world engine or world creator. world engine creator. 3d world creator.

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  7. "Also people should be more i mindful when creating their scenes to use LODs and other methods to reduce memory usage."

    Even if LOD and other optimization techniques are important, it should not be expected that the target users of Reloaded should have to worry about any of this themselves. Remember that Reloaded is aimed at complete novices and bills itself as the "easiest to use" game creator. So any serious optimization requirements should be handled transparently by the engine--or at the least all TGC-endorsed models and functionality should automatically include such optimizations so that the end user need not be concerned.

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  8. If your really going to change the name then don't add FPS or FP to the name. Otherwise it may drive away a consumer before they even try it.

    Some ideas:
    CER: Creators Engine Reloaded
    EE: Easy Engine

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  9. Occlusion is a big one so is quads.

    Need to make haste now nearing 2 years. And the lights are being neglected and the shaders keep being put off etc. come on the 3 of you. Stop conkit and sort out lights. Conkit should of always come after the engine was completed.

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  10. Megalithic game designer m.g.d

    Apprentice engine a.e

    Lethal engine edition. L.e.e

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  11. @imchasinyou

    Play the comp winner demo, and see how clever designed level gets away with a lot.That said no amount of performance or LOD or any other gimmick is going to save a badly designed level point period.

    You are not being forced to buy models you are not being forced to used the software, if you don't like you are more than welcome to go else where, where you will be happy.To be abrupt and rude don't let the door hit you on the way out, we need passionate developers that see reason and understand limitations and is willing to work towards a solution.

    Finally your always welcome, to stick around and wait out the beta, it will be worth it

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    1. Hey buddy, Your right, i dont have to put money in Lees pocket for "holiday" any longer. If I can save some one from wasting the money, i can and will. NOW, If you wish to return my 300.00 (thats 3 backers Ive personally paid for at waste. NONE of them use it any longer as its just a dead horse as stated) and the money wasted in the "store" Ill shut my big yap and stop hurting your feelings. Until then, Ill express my opinions as I FEEL FIT. Lee will delete all these any how to make it all look good and successful.. Ill likely just give away my account to some one anyhow :). Good day sir.

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    2. i kinda agree with the above, he has his rights to voice his opinons and concerns just like the rest of us.. no need to be rude to the guy wizardofid m8..

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    3. This is how you speak to people? Trust me, your demo/level was not that great to begin with. There were much better. Rather get off your pedestal and let others have their opinion.

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  12. Call it: CakeEngine: making games with it is a piece of cake.

    PieEngine: its easy as pie to make games with it.

    Similar: SnapEngine, BreezeEngine. EaseEngine, SimplicityEngine...
    More?

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    1. Now I like breeze engine :)

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    2. Because it's a breeze to make games, also refers to something new and fresh.... Cheers

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  13. First image is the old 1.6 the second is 1.85 that's 111fps loss :/

    http://s28.postimg.org/izpolh0rx/106.jpg
    http://s28.postimg.org/a5ys4ddt9/185.jpg

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    1. now thats a bottom line we can all see, so where does it all go...

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  14. I like the idea of "First Person Simulator".
    First Person Shooter is too limiting.

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  15. @imchasinyou
    If you can code a better engine or make better models if you can put money where your mouth is then by all means show me and the others here how it's done if not kindly go sit there in a corner with your feet in your mouth.

    @lordalmighty1
    As do I have the right to voice my opinion and to call a troll a troll, truth hurts if you don't like it don't get excited on the internet if your unable to back up claims, or do better.

    @imchasinyou,Sat Mar 22nd 2014 that is when he joined, so call me rude or what ever I have used FPSC for the better part of the last 10 years, I have the right to call it as I see it as well. However the above it's not too showboat, the object is to point out that patients will reward in the end performance is going to go up and down, as new things get added, multi core support will be added.Graphics will be greatly improved performance will go up again and will go down again as the engine evolves.

    As I said if you don't like it and your not willing to see reason when you have been told time and again it is a beta product after all, and your not willing to post in a constructive way and point out exactly what you feel is wrong with the performance other than a long list of complaints, is to the door.If you willing to work together understand there is some limitations. You can't expect to throw a 1000 trees at ANY engine and expect stellar performance or throw 2 million polygons at some thing without out some effort to adjust settings and to design a level that is suited to the engine.If your expecting to create a UDK scene in reloaded it will never happen, because reloaded is not suppose to be like UDK or unity or any other engine for that matter.

    Finally if you can't be constructive about it there nothing lee or any one else can do about it, when you start to post threatening posts about leaving reloaded to go use some thing else.The only option is to extent a hand although rude but politely point your hand to the door.There is nothing worse than nonconstructive complaints doesn't help any one, lee would like to please every last person who supported the project but there is limits and some expectation of reasonable actions.

    Meet lee half way be polite, be reasonable and I can promise you if time permits Lee will gladly take 5 minutes to address any concerns.You also have to remember this is lee's blog and as much as you have the right to voice your opinion he has a right to delete posts as he sees fit, if it becomes the part of the problem not the solution.


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    1. You really are full of yourself are'nt you?

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  16. @Wizardofid (@imchasinyou,Sat Mar 22nd 2014) you cant really go on that m8 as i also have been around for a good 5-6 years but as i used a new email with reloaded it says i joined this year.

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    1. @Tattie No you probably it can't. He does however give the impression of a new member which I blame him for.

      Does it warrant to tell every one I am using UDK or XYZ engine because of this or that with little or no merit, no it's doesn't ?. It shows a little bit of your character and good luck to him I hope he is successful with whatever en devour he takes on. However kudos to lee being objective irrespective of the bad mouthing, Lee gets a beating from all sides of the fence, and very few is grateful what he trying to do for us, if it takes 4 years or 20 years to perfect the idea who cares.

      I will continue to support the project regardless of when, what or who, there is really no need to throw toys out of the cot..like the above.

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    2. sorry meant can't blame him for :P

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  17. I never thought I'd be getting blog critique, but I can sense the frustration so understand the need to express :) Engine development is not for the faint hearted, and perhaps one reason there are only a handful of them out there. Joining Reloaded during the alpha phase of development, you get to see things 'warts and all', without the polish and often with the wires hanging out. I doubt many people would look at an engine room and call it pretty :)

    I am also not happy with performance, and to some degree the final visual, which is why I am spending a good deal of time over the next few weeks getting both to a higher level. Today I will be working on a pre-bake lighting step which will increase visual quality and lower the processing required for static shadows. Occlusion and render order are the tasks after this one.

    A difficult question for me to answer is how fast is fast enough? What should I be aiming for? A team member suggested 700 fps, that seemed a little extreme. It would be great if someone could send me a small executable from a rival game maker, say with a crate sitting on a landscape that shows the FPS on screen. I can then produce one in Reloaded of comparable content and work to exceed that FPS score. I would be happy to blog my progress and findings if someone would be willing to participate.

    Speaking on TGC Asset content, we strive to make sure all items have LOD when required (i.e. buildings, high poly items), so if you spot any items that should have LOD and do not, and they are stock items from TGC, let me know!

    P.S. Thanks for the name suggestions, keep them coming! I did like Cake Engine (as in the software is a piece of cake to use), but from experience I already know we'll be getting users expecting to make cakes with it ;)

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  18. Although that sounds great lol! A 3d printer decked to print food and cake engine to print any 3d cake you want! Great for late night coding sessions when nowhere is open ;)
    You could go all out and include it in game, so when you find a cake, you can eat it! Lol, I digress, but as I can't think of any decent name I vote for a cake function ;)

    Ah well, one name idea, although probably not too good. Gamecraft , or Gamecraft3D.

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  19. MirthEngine? As in joy in making games....

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  20. For the loot I spent on a gold and bronze pledge I am way ahead of the game. I can make fantastic landscapes and thanks to TGC and the store artist game packs I can place already purchased assets on my landscapes plus I have made an Occulus Rift game. So if the impatient wannabe game makers like paying $75.00 or more a month just for the priviledge of using an online game engine not to mention pay the exorbitant prices for their models then you have more money than time and by all means beat a hasty retreat and don't let the door hit you in the B___ on your way out. Thanks to Lee, the TGC gang, and independent artist that make FPSC and Reloaded what it is..

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  21. I strongly suggest Reloaded. Drop the FPSC part. The name needs a strong brand associated with it, and Reloaded has that. It wouldn't alienate any current users and isn't too generic (like lots of the suggestions here, sorry guys).

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  23. So glad you've decided to expand beyond just violence! :) :)

    I like your idea of replacing "shooter" with "simulator". You could also do FPGC (First-Person Game Creator). Weapons and instruments of violence could be an (perhaps free) add-on rather than part of the original package. This would keep the original package more friendly for kids and those who just prefer more creative and fun, non-violent games, such as adventure games, puzzle & challenge games, coordination games, action (and reflexes) games, exploration games, fantasy & other-worldly games, etc.

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