tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-736684970174462098.post233986768975716021..comments2023-11-03T02:36:41.872-07:00Comments on FPS Creator Reloaded: Wednesday LOD and LIGHTAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00942934253243738809noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-736684970174462098.post-9058093991178225562013-05-31T19:38:41.140-07:002013-05-31T19:38:41.140-07:00I've changed my mind (as of Lee's comment ...I've changed my mind (as of Lee's comment about deferred potentially costing 4-6 renders of the entire scene. It would be very (extremely) disappointing not being able to actually use the latest FPSC just because I voted for deferred and that caused it to run at 5fps...Clonkexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01090082045412254311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-736684970174462098.post-91412119028744971642013-05-24T16:47:02.441-07:002013-05-24T16:47:02.441-07:00Hi Lee
I feel you must go with the deferred rendi...Hi Lee<br /><br />I feel you must go with the deferred rending for FPSCR.<br /><br />Dynamic shadows were cancelled in FPSC X10 and it would be a significant loss if this happens again in FPSCR.<br /><br />We really must go for a more advanced lighting system for the next generation of FPSC and I think you should take a bit longer to deliver if it means we can get this.<br /><br />Please make deferred rendering and dynamic shadows the next highest priority for Reloaded.Nomad Soulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14981728015213669001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-736684970174462098.post-81254020527012086732013-05-24T06:21:16.578-07:002013-05-24T06:21:16.578-07:00First of all: Just remember, Lee, you're using...First of all: Just remember, Lee, you're using a fairly massive PC to test this on, and we don't all have massive PCs.<br /><br />Second: I say go for the deferred renderer. I'm terrified at what cost this might come (in terms of speed I mean) but it's just so much more powerful. As DarkGoblin said, it makes it far easier to create one giant unified shader system.<br /><br />I expect to allowed to place any number of dynamic point, spot and directional lights in my FPSC-R scenes. Compared to forward rendering, deferred rendering is MUCH faster when you have many lights, because deferred renders them all in one go whereas forward renders them one by one.<br /><br />So as much as it scares me, in that I might be helping to create a slower-rendering FPSC, I vote we go for deferred rendering (without pre-baked lightmaps). Just so long as you put a lot of effort into making it as fast as possible and making everything lightable.<br /><br />Also, read these, they apply to Unity but are very general and might give some insight into how to implement shadows and (importantly) what level of detail your characters should have (no more than 10,000 at highest LOD):<br /><br />http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Manual/DirectionalShadowDetails.html<br />http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Manual/ShadowSizeDetails.html<br />http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Manual/Shadows.html<br />http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Manual/DrawCallBatching.html<br />http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Manual/ModelingOptimizedCharacters.html<br />http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Manual/RenderingPaths.htmlClonkexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01090082045412254311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-736684970174462098.post-86211935548728772712013-05-23T22:43:47.961-07:002013-05-23T22:43:47.961-07:00To me; the reduced memory and real-time shadows wo...To me; the reduced memory and real-time shadows would be my preference. Maybe the new light mapper could be made into a separate application to create baked light map environments to import into FPSC-R?Ched80https://www.blogger.com/profile/11750682727904305364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-736684970174462098.post-89251150284296227672013-05-23T10:00:18.878-07:002013-05-23T10:00:18.878-07:00So here are my thoughts about the deffered renderi...So here are my thoughts about the deffered rendering system or backed lights:<br /><br />I see some real benefits in using deferred rendering. As first the memory needed for baked lights is gone (as you already mentioned). Than in advance we can use multiple dynamic light sources for all surface shaders (which adds to immersion).<br />Than there is the point, that you can enable and disable dynamic lights based of visibility in the level (so something like portals, which deactivate unneded lights --> performance save).<br />Another interresting part of a deffered renderer is, that you have a base shader on every object in the scene, which lets you render all needed stuff like World Normals, World Space Positions, etc... This can later be used for example to generate an alpha map for (multiple) water planes, which than do not cut into objects but create a nice alpha transition to every object. Also you can use this pecific base object shader to generate depth info for maybe an Depth of Field shader etc.<br />The possibilities gained by at least an unified (deferred) rendering in this case are endless.<br /><br />A big thing would be, that FPSC-R would gain much more attention (even in the future) as a lot of newer engines tend to use deferred rendering, as it gives you a lot more possibilities in all ways. Real-Time map editing with real-time lighting, more immersive worlds with dynamic shadows etc. This would be a huge boost for the overall visuals and is something FPSC-R could really need.<br /><br />In combination with Object LoD, light LoD and different light sources (Point, Spot, Directional) the performance hit should not be that bad. Maybe there are some things connected to DBP source which would help improving the overall performance. <br /><br />So to keep it short here (could talk about this a lot more, why I would go with a deffered renderer rather than baked lights), my opinion is, use a deffered renderer, even if this pushes the deadline. <br />I think the time for this has come and by putting such a possibility to the side now, would result in problems later, if you want to put it in at another time. DarkGoblinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02037600615032382063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-736684970174462098.post-37011789536489043302013-05-23T03:48:41.755-07:002013-05-23T03:48:41.755-07:00Hi Lee,
Your work seems to be progressing well. T...Hi Lee,<br /><br />Your work seems to be progressing well. Thank you.<br /><br />With regard to the lighting I guess that at some time the theory (prototype) of each of the proposed methods given you developed a prototype for each and the work involved in both - each would have to be tested integrated to the whole. I dont think we would be in a position to judge the benefit as opposed to any disadvantage on performance and so on as you would be actually working with and getting the feedback of what you are doing instantly as it were.<br /><br />I guess theres no real way to know which will work best and actually be possible to integrate to best effect unless you do it which means a lot more work for you and a longer development pipeline.<br /><br />As with most of these things the end user and game player does not really care how its done as they judge by the result. Point being is it a feature which is required absolute or not and is is viable. If there is little benefit one way or another then either is good. If there are any serious disadvantages (to the end users) then its not good. On balance if its not needed and the investment in resources is not matched by the benefits then theres no point in doing it. <br /><br />If its just a little eye candy benefit then I am not sure it could be said to be necessary. However if it needs doing for the future benefit of the product then now is the time to do it I guess so it can be tested and built into the early core rather than chop that about later.<br /><br />Personally I am not actually aware of the exact overall differences to the end user visually in the end game play and if one or the other would have much benefit to them one over the other considering the engine development ongoing either short or long term. i.e. if the dynamic type would be a better bet or not for the future of games made with the product.<br /><br />I am waffling now about what you already are aware of....<br /><br />I think your comment about moving on with the physics and so on and getting some things into the editor is about right at the moment and adding any current lighting proto work to it may throw more light scuse the pun on the subject for you to access yourself. Will that integrate and work and will it be enough for the product? <br /><br />Better is always good if it can be done if indeed overall something is better by real benefit.Peter Colemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00276736145648248864noreply@blogger.com